London, the United Kingdom – Ten British citizens, including dual citizens, who have served in the Israeli army are being accused of war crimes in Gaza.
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Michael Mansfield, 83, a main English lawyer who has worked in several cases of high profile through his career and is called “The King” of human rights work, was among those who were given to the file that Tok to Toty Sixs and Removal.
The boxes of other lawyers, lawyers, researchers and human rights professionals have signed a support letter, urging the Met’s war crimes team to investigate complaints.
Due to legal reasons, nor the names of the suspects, some of whom worked at the level of an officer, nor the report are fully made public. Allged war crimes from October 7, 2023 to May 31 are documented in the file, which is based on open source material and witness testimonies.
Al Jazeera interviewed Mansfield about the historical case, his views on Israel’s genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza and why he believes that the legal efforts against those involved in the attack remain important, even as critical and mass rillings are ignored.
Al Jazeera: What can you tell us about the case?
Michael Mansfield: The reason I can’t talk about detail is perhaps obvious: … people [accused] I would immediately know who they were.
If a National of the United Kingdom commits some serious crime abroad, … you can be and investigated, arrested, accused and judged here in the United Kingdom. This is nothing out of the ordinary in that sense.
The out of common bit, of course, is linked to war crimes and crimes against humanity, which are international crimes.
The United Kingdom can obviously investigate themselves, or the International Criminal Court can investigate and collect, etc.
No one can be inaugurated from the scope of devastation, particularly in Gaza, although that is not the only place in the world where those things are happening. And in relation to these matters, the public asks: “What are we doing about it? What can we do about it?”
International justice institutions and human rights conventions were established just after World War II to prevent this from happening, if possible, intervening.
[But] The United Nations ability to intervene has been emasculated by the main nations: Russia and America almost always oppose each Ootter. In addition to that, the United Kingdom sits in the fence and refrains from most of these issues.
Slow but sure, all the principles that are with the rule of law and democracy based on the rules have the leg, essentially, it is denuded by practicality.
The court is very difficult to do anything because countries [allegedly behind war crimes] They are apparently immune. They don’t care what international courts may think, or the International Criminal Court [or the] International Court of Justice.
Al Jazeera: Like most monitors and observers they cannot enter Gaza currently due to the Israeli siege, how did the researchers and lawyers behind the report identified the defendants?
Mansfield: Linking the individual [to the alleged crimes] It is the problem. It must be able to provide researchers at least enough evidence to say it is worth investigating this.
They could say: “We can’t do this. It’s too difficult.” Then they could deliver it to the International Criminal Court, which has more resources.
There is something called Berkeley protocol, which focuses on how to gather evidence from publicly available sources.
Publicly available sources could be the jazeera [footage]. He could be someone doing a selfie on his own phone.
The investigation has already been carried out to ensure that the material of these 10 is sufficient for the police to make a decision to do more or not.
Al Jazeera: This month, Hungary withdrew from the International Criminal Court, which issued a sentence order for Benjamin Netanyahu, before a visit by the Israeli prime minister. If the global institutions that are intended to maintain human rights laws are under threat, decisions are avoided and massacres continue in places like Gaza. What impact can legal efforts like yours have?
Mansfield: I think they make a difference for those of us who care.
I mean, they do not make a difference to perpetrators. They have never done it. And that is why they had Nuremberg’s judgments at the end of World War II.
TOSA’s lawyer, I can’t simply sit and say that I have wasted 55 years of my career. I have to be able to say that I have struggled to get a situation in which people are responsible.
The law has not been able to deliver. The law is there, the institutions are there, but until governments … begin to respect the rule of law and not ignore it, there are many different ways that people can be responsible. As lawyers and as members of the public, we have to be ready for the authorities to do their real work, no one else, and will simply worsen.
The basic freedoms that you and I enjoy when we can: freedom of association, movement, speech, etc., are not divisible. What I mean by that is that you could live on the other side of the world, but if they are your rights to be attacked in this way, it is also me. Do not make fog, when it happens there, you could be you next.
This type of human rights approach is not a type of aroused issue that only a few liberal lawyers think. It is bone fought by other people. The lawyers in the past have fought very hard to configure everything.
Al Jazeera: Do you classify what is happening in Gaza as a genocide?
I do it, yes, there is no doubt.
In this particular case, if you are personally attacked in the domestic sense or in any other, you have the right to defend themselves but only to some extent.
If you are attacked with someone holding a wooden spoon, you can’t use a machine gun to kill them. … This has gone far beyond self -defense.
Of course they [aggressors, in this case Israel] He will always justify him and say he is a defense of his own, but you just have to see what they have done.
Many of the victims are women, babies, children and doctors and journalists. … They are protected individuals under the law.
In my opinion, it is clearly a genocide because they have [Israeli officials] Made it very clear in several statements. They are talking about a bigger Israel. There is a political ambition that is found, not for everyone, you know, members of the [Israeli military] And so on, but I think a proportion of Sizeex.
[They] Obviously, they adhere to that principle that they want to see Gaza erased from the map, and yes, they would like to be reinstated as a Riviera resort of the Trump empire.
It has gone beyond plausible.
[Note: The International Court of Justice said in January 2024 that it was plausible that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza.]
Al Jazeera: How will the world look back at this time in history?
Mansfield: I hope it causes the change of a child in people’s hearts and minds.
The world’s leaders have the right to do something about it, and I think that prime minister itself [UK Premier Keir Starmer] I should do more than what you are doing.
Originally, we [the UK] Objected to the question of judgment orders. However, that was the previous [Conservative] Government and when [Labour’s] Starmer was chosen, he changed that. He withdrew his objections on behalf of the United Kingdom, so it was a step in the right direction.
I think we will look back and say, real, Miles went out to the marches. Thousands of people are globally angry, annoying and feeling desperate, so keeping the law alive in the way in which the main prosecutors tried to do, not only for Israel, but also for other perpetrators, even [Russian President Vladimir] Putin and Russia and Ukraine.
We have to keep the affectionate alive. You can’t get away from that. You can’t hide in your room and think: “Oh, I didn’t start this.” No, you did not, but if you are a member of the human race, I’m afraid you have a responsibility.
If you do not spend every hour of vigil trying to maintain what others create in the first place [the rule of law]I feel that I will have failed.
You can’t get away from that and wait for themselves to be discouraged, well, that’s what politicians expect, that we will all give up. I think it is [about] Creating a public opinion well, so that politicians realize that there is where to go because they are not really supported.
You have to connect, participate and then as much as you can. That is all that can be expected. Once you do that, you will find hundreds and thousands of people doing the same, and then all politicians say: “Oh, of course, there are votes here. We better do the right things.”
It is a moving opinion all the time and keeping the flame alive.
Al Jazeera: How would you summarize the ongoing atrocities?
Mansfield: I would describe it as a massive assault and destruction of humanity. It does not make that.
Al Jazeera: You have worked in high profile cases, such as representing the family of Stephen Lawrence, the British black adolescent stabbed to death in a racist attack, and the Birmingham six, the Irish group did work in 1974.
Mansfield: It is the effect and impact on a community. Now the case of Lawrence, as it turned out and, as it was at that time, had a great impact on a community. It represented a much bigger problem that, you know, the stabbing of Stephen Lawrence, which was horrible.
Althegh was on your television screens as Gaza and did not see the destruction of the child you see in Gaza, had a similar effect on people.
And he has other cases like that. It’s not about whether it’s just an individual or thousands. This is the impact on the principle of justice.
Note: This interview was edited by clarity and brevity.
